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Serious Safety Flaw - please correct!

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New Neighbor

Re: Serious Safety Flaw - please correct!

Jennifer, thank you for this information. As  I understood, When I alarm the system and leave the house, the motion sensor will be able to detect motion only after 3 minutes, then work as expected. If this is the truth, there is a big design flaw - poor design. Motion sensor MUST be in full working condition immediately after the system is alarmed! It was detected when I went to the door to leave home during the exit delay time. Then the system switched to the alarm mode and all sensors must be ready. With 3 minutes of additional delay, you are lying to your customers about your product able to protect them. The Ring must immediately fix this problem and replace all sold motion sensors if necessary. Otherwise, it is an illegal business practice.

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New Neighbor II

Re: Serious Safety Flaw - please correct!

Can't understand the design logic (and lack of communication) regarding his important issue. The posts on 10/07/2018 and 10/08/2018 pretty much sum up the situation.

 

I'm no programmer but it seems to me like it should be fairly easy to make the 'reset' time on the motion sensors user-adjustable (ie, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, etc.).

 

I wish we could get an update from Jennifer_Ring or Riley_Ring - or, better yet, from a Ring programmer / engineer...

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New Neighbor

Re: Serious Safety Flaw - please correct!

Here's a short extract from my Ring system notifications log:

  1. Entrance hall PIR STOPPED DETECTING MOTION 2/10/20 7:56 PM
  2. Dining room PIR STOPPED DETECTING MOTION 2/10/20 7:56 PM
  3. Ring Alarm CHANGED TO AWAY MODE FROM KEYPAD BY DAVID MOSS 2/10/20 7:53 PM
  4. Front Door CLOSED 2/10/20 7:53 PM
  5. Front Door OPENED 2/10/20 7:53 PM
  6. Entrance hall PIR MOTION DETECTED 2/10/20 7:53 PM
  7. Ring Alarm STARTED EXIT DELAY BY DAVID MOSS 2/10/20 7:53 PM

I walk from the dining room to the entrance hall at 7:53, set the alarm and leave the house. Three minutes later at 7:56 the 2 relevant PIRs say they have stopped detecting motion.

 

That seems to me to be the problem. Not the fact that you have to wait for 3 minutes before a PIR is armed as per the thread above. Instead, the fact that those PIRs simply will not work, they will be "bypassed".

 

Any device detecting motion up to 3 minutes before arming the system is not going to be doing its job. It looks as though Ring have devised a system which only works if you put your motion detectors in the wrong place. Or does "STOPPED DETECTING MOTION" mean "WORKING FINE, NO BURGLAR CAN GET PAST ME UNDETECTED"?

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New Neighbor II

Re: Serious Safety Flaw - please correct!

DMossEsq,

 

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that if you walk by (and trip) one or more sensors (which you'd obviously do as you're leaving the house), then arm the system, that they then will be bypassed and remain inactive for the *entire* armed period - not just the 3 minutes?

 

Doesn't sound right.

 

I haven't tested in a while, but I think the sensors re-arm themselves after the goofy 3 minute wait time has passed.

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New Neighbor

Re: Serious Safety Flaw - please correct!

"Doesn't sound right".

Exactly.

That's why I commented.

If my understanding had been correct Ring would be very unright.

 

My comment was based on reading documentation on the Ring website and the notification logs of activity on my newly installed system. From all those words I got the impression that some motion detectors could remain inactive while the system was armed.

 

Turning from words to actions, I have now tested the system and thank goodness I was wrong, I had misunderstood, motion detectors do get their mojo back after a few minutes and start once again to do their job:

  1. Ring Alarm ALARM CLEARED BY DAVID MOSS 2/11/20 2:53 PM
  2. Ring Alarm DISARMED FROM KEYPAD BY DAVID MOSS 2/11/20 2:53 PM
  3. Ring Alarm RING ALARM IS SOUNDING BY DINING ROOM PIR AND MULTIPLE DEVICES 2/11/20 2:53 PM
  4. Dining room PIR MOTION DETECTED 2/11/20 2:53 PM
  5. Ring Alarm ENTRY DELAY CAUSED BY KITCHEN PIR 2/11/20 2:53 PM
  6. Kitchen PIR MOTION DETECTED 2/11/20 2:53 PM
  7. Kitchen PIR STOPPED DETECTING MOTION 2/11/20 2:52 PM
  8. Entrance hall PIR STOPPED DETECTING MOTION 2/11/20 2:52 PM
  9. Dining room PIR STOPPED DETECTING MOTION 2/11/20 2:52 PM
  10. Ring Alarm CHANGED TO AWAY MODE FROM KEYPAD BY DAVID MOSS 2/11/20 2:49 PM
  11. Front Door CLOSED 2/11/20 2:49 PM
  12. Front Door OPENED 2/11/20 2:48 PM
  13. Ring Alarm STARTED EXIT DELAY BY DAVID MOSS 2/11/20 2:48 PM
  14. Kitchen PIR MOTION DETECTED 2/11/20 2:48 PM

I set the alarm, opened the door and closed it but didn't leave the house (10-13), instead I went to the kitchen at 2:49 where motion had been detected at 2:48 (14). I read an article about the world economy grinding to a halt due to coronavirus until at 2:53 the kitchen PIR woke up (5-6), spotted me and triggered the alarm.

 

When the log says "Kitchen PIR STOPPED DETECTING MOTION" (7) does it actually mean "Kitchen PIR STARTED DETECTING MOTION"? That's what it looks like. Before 2:53 the PIR couldn't detect me, after 2:52 it could. The words are odd, don't believe them, do a test.

 

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New Neighbor II

Re: Serious Safety Flaw - please correct!

Glad your test verified that they do work after the 3 minute 'rest'. Now if they would let us users determine how quickly the sensors come back online all would be good. A lot of bad can happen in 3 minutes...

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Community Manager

Re: Serious Safety Flaw - please correct!

Thank you for sharing your experience and detailed observations @DMossEsq! The help center article you shared prior, for Bypassing Alarm Devices, is great information for the scenario where bypass is necessary. 

 

This help center article about Re-setting Your Motion Detector After it Triggers contains more information specific to this "dwell time" after triggering. I hope this helps! Smiley Happy 



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New Neighbor II

Re: Serious Safety Flaw - please correct!

Marley,

 

Thanks for the info. However, there seem to be quite a few Users that think having a sensor effectively go 'dead' for 3 minutes is a security risk.

 

As I mentioned back in October (see previous post), why not give US the choice. Here's the post:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree 100%. Having a motion sensor go 'dead' after detecting motion is just plain dumb. The only thing  I can think of is they do this to preserve battery life. I also agree that this should be an option that can be changed by the user.

 

Can anyone at Ring give us a clear explanation of the logic behind making motion sensors go dead for 3-4 minutes after detecting motion? And why can't you just update the software/firmware to make it a user setting?

 

Example setting I'd love to see:

 

After inital motion detection, pause addtional motion detection for:

a) 0 seconds

b) 30 seconds

c) 1 minute

d) 2 minutes

e) 3 minutes

Note: Setting a lower pause time may impact battery life.

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New Neighbor

Re: Serious Safety Flaw - please correct!

Just got Ring in the UK and have noticed this same flaw.
How can the system take 3 mins to reactivate a motion sensor after the alarm is armed? This should be immediate.
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New Neighbor

Re: Serious Safety Flaw - please correct!

This is a serious problem. Unfortunately, Ring is unable to fix it. I reported it about 6 months ago and nothing was done to fix this very bad issue. A big stigma on Ring for this unprofessional business!