Serious Safety Flaw - please correct!

Kind of disappointed that no one from Ring has commented on this. I think it is a serious issue. Let’s hope they post something soon. I’ll also be calling support as well to see where things stand.

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Thank you for your feedback @SoriceConsulting . As mentioned, we recommend using both Contact Sensors and Motion Detectors to create a ring of security around your home. By using Contact Sensors at every entry point around your home, any intruder would be detected and set off the Alarm after your customizable Entry Delay. We appreciate your feedback and have sent it to the team, but it appears that the Alarm is indeed working as designed.

Thanks Jennifer. I understand it is working as designed. I’m trying to point out what I feel is a serious security/safety flaw! I spoke to a representative on the phone a few days ago and he said you’ve gotten LOTS of calls about this issue.

No to repeat prior posts, but when the alarm is set (especially in Away Mode), I’m telling Ring that I am *leaving* the house in 30 seconds (our set exit delay). Why on earth would the system then wait 3-4 minutes to arm Motion Sensors?

Also, when set to Home Mode, I am, again, telling Ring that I will not be walking near the Motion Sensors I set to be armed when home. Again - why on earth would the system then wait 3-4 minutes to arm Motion Sensors?

Serious flaw. The green check mark saying all sensors are armed is an outright falsehood.

If someone broke in during that 3-4 minute ‘unarmed’ time period (through an area that is only protected by motion sensors) they could steal a bunch of stuff, hurt someone, etc. - which could be a serious liability issue for Ring.

At the vey least, please update the firmware so that I can choose to arm all motion sensors when the exit delay expires. Seems like such a simple fix.

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While I don’t personally consider the three minut delay on the motion sensors to be a serious security breech, it would still be good to be able to set a zero delay. That way you could use the system as a panic button. I arm and disarm my system with Alexa commands . If I heard strange noises/voices and realized the system was disarmed, I would like to be able to voice control the system on with an immediate response to motion.

While I don’t personally consider the three minut delay on the motion sensors to be a serious security breech, it would still be good to be able to set a zero delay. That way you could use the system as a panic button. I arm and disarm my system with Alexa commands . If I heard strange noises/voices and realized the system was disarmed, I would like to be able to voice control the system on with an immediate response to motion.

I found this thread while searching for a solution to this issue of delay.

It is clear to me that Ring designed it this way and doesn’t see a problem with it. I’m just here to post that this is a problem and that this isn’t how a lot of people want their motion sensors to behave.

After a Ring motion sensor detects motion, it essentially goes dead for four minutes, so any motion is completely ignored for four minutes after an initial motion detection. I don’t see how Ring thinks this is a good design. But they do think this, and at the very least they should give people an option to change this.

I am using motion sensors to trigger routines with Alexa. These routines need to run every single time a motion is detected, even if the motions occur 30 seconds apart. Paralyzing the routines for four minutes makes the routines useless. Probably makes a lot of motion-based routines useless.

Hopefully Ring will fix this some day.

I agree 100%. Having a motion sensor go ‘dead’ after detecting motion is just plain dumb. The only thing I can think of is they do this to preserve battery life. I also agree that this should be an option that can be changed by the user.

Can anyone at Ring give us a clear explanation of the logic behind making motion sensors go dead for 3-4 minutes after detecting motion? And why can’t you just update the software/firmware to make it a user setting?

Example setting I’d love to see:

After inital motion detection, pause addtional motion detection for:

a) 0 seconds

b) 30 seconds

c) 1 minute

d) 2 minutes

e) 3 minutes

Note: Setting a lower pause time may impact battery life.

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Bump.

Jennifer_Ring?

Riley_Ring?

Any comments?

Jenifer_Ring

Your suggestion that users protect all points of entry with contact sensors is inadequate. I have 14 posible points of entry at my home. Also, contact sensors do not protect windows - it is easy to simply break a window and crawl through. Your motion sensors NEED to change or you will begin to loose business

I am currently researching another supplier for replacement of my existing Ring sensors.

I am over-invested (time and money) in the Ring system and would hate to scrap the entire system.

One of two things WILL happen:

  1. Ring will fix the firmware - soon, or

  2. I and many others will acquire a different system.

Note to others who believe that this is a problem.I will post if I find a satisfactory replacement sensor

Before you waste more precious time, the Ring base station may recognize third party motion sensors, but only for the purpose of triggering an Alexa routine or something like that.

Ring will not actually trip your alarm or summon help for a break in unless the trigger is a Ring brand sensor. So if the dead period between motion detections is a deal breaker (it is for me) then your only option is to find another alarm system. Expecting Ring to do anything about this is wishful thinking. So don’t spend your time looking for alternate sensors to work with Ring, invest the time looking for an alternate system that doesn’t have this dumb blind spot.

Agreed. Sigh. I’m on wait to speak to a Rep to see if I can get a definitive answer as to why the motion sensors go DEAD for 3-4 minutes after the first motion sense event.

Would Ring be liable if someone has an adverse event when their system says ‘you are protected’ when you are actually not? Just wondering…

Kind of disappointed that we can’t get

Jennifer_Ring

or

Riley_Ring

to reply - seems like this thread is getting ignored.

I’ve been a loyal Amazon customer since 2001! Hoping that their (to date) great customer service is not going the way of most others…

Spoke to nice Rep named Keith at about 7:45 pm EST. He said that the system is programmed that way to:

  1. Preserve battery life

  2. To avoid false alarms - Example: If a customer had their ‘garage’ motion set to trigger an alarm when in ‘away’ mode - and they then set Ring to ‘away’ (with a zero second delay), and left through the garage, the alarm would trigger. Makes sense - BUT - the onus should be on the CUSTOMER to program their system correctly. This ‘blanket solution’ makes no sense and makes me feel very uncomfortable about this system.

Our previous alarm (that we had for 12 years) would arm motion sensors IMMEDIATELY upon activating ‘away’. Never had an issue.

Hate to say it , but I think this is a ‘money’ setting (false alarms cost Ring money in time lost).

Same thing as the (not sure if everyone knows it) setting that does NOT alert the monitoring station for at least 30 SECONDS when the alarm is triggered (again - a cost savings issue?).

Again, with our previous system, a triggered alarm would result in a phone call from the monitoring station in less than 30 seconds - not 60-90.

Sigh…

The thread is not getting ignored and all information continues to be sent over to the team. We will update you with any information as it comes in. Also, please check out and ensure you are following all Community Guidelines. Thank you!

Jennifer_Ring,

Thanks for replying. Not trying to be negative - overall we love our Ring System. Checked the Community Guidelines and I did contact Support first on this issue (see my posts about what I discovered). Hope you don’t think I fall under any of the other categories!

I’m just very concerned about this issue (as it seems are many others) - including the Support people I’ve talked to about it. Would appreciate a response from your design/engineering team saying why the 3-4 minute ‘dead’ time is imposed between motion sensing events.

And if it can be changed so that it is User controlled.

Thanks!

Jennifer, thank you for this information. As I understood, When I alarm the system and leave the house, the motion sensor will be able to detect motion only after 3 minutes, then work as expected. If this is the truth, there is a big design flaw - poor design. Motion sensor MUST be in full working condition immediately after the system is alarmed! It was detected when I went to the door to leave home during the exit delay time. Then the system switched to the alarm mode and all sensors must be ready. With 3 minutes of additional delay, you are lying to your customers about your product able to protect them. The Ring must immediately fix this problem and replace all sold motion sensors if necessary. Otherwise, it is an illegal business practice.

Can’t understand the design logic (and lack of communication) regarding his important issue. The posts on 10/07/2018 and 10/08/2018 pretty much sum up the situation.

I’m no programmer but it seems to me like it should be fairly easy to make the ‘reset’ time on the motion sensors user-adjustable (ie, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, etc.).

I wish we could get an update from Jennifer_Ring or Riley_Ring - or, better yet, from a Ring programmer / engineer…

Here’s a short extract from my Ring system notifications log:

  1. Entrance hall PIR STOPPED DETECTING MOTION 2/10/20 7:56 PM
  2. Dining room PIR STOPPED DETECTING MOTION 2/10/20 7:56 PM
  3. Ring Alarm CHANGED TO AWAY MODE FROM KEYPAD BY DAVID MOSS 2/10/20 7:53 PM
  4. Front Door CLOSED 2/10/20 7:53 PM
  5. Front Door OPENED 2/10/20 7:53 PM
  6. Entrance hall PIR MOTION DETECTED 2/10/20 7:53 PM
  7. Ring Alarm STARTED EXIT DELAY BY DAVID MOSS 2/10/20 7:53 PM

I walk from the dining room to the entrance hall at 7:53, set the alarm and leave the house. Three minutes later at 7:56 the 2 relevant PIRs say they have stopped detecting motion.

That seems to me to be the problem. Not the fact that you have to wait for 3 minutes before a PIR is armed as per the thread above. Instead, the fact that those PIRs simply will not work, they will be “bypassed”.

Any device detecting motion up to 3 minutes before arming the system is not going to be doing its job. It looks as though Ring have devised a system which only works if you put your motion detectors in the wrong place. Or does “STOPPED DETECTING MOTION” mean “WORKING FINE, NO BURGLAR CAN GET PAST ME UNDETECTED”?

DMossEsq,

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that if you walk by (and trip) one or more sensors (which you’d obviously do as you’re leaving the house), then arm the system, that they then will be bypassed and remain inactive for the *entire* armed period - not just the 3 minutes?

Doesn’t sound right.

I haven’t tested in a while, but I think the sensors re-arm themselves after the goofy 3 minute wait time has passed.

“Doesn’t sound right”.

Exactly.

That’s why I commented.

If my understanding had been correct Ring would be very unright.

My comment was based on reading documentation on the Ring website and the notification logs of activity on my newly installed system. From all those words I got the impression that some motion detectors could remain inactive while the system was armed.

Turning from words to actions, I have now tested the system and thank goodness I was wrong, I had misunderstood, motion detectors do get their mojo back after a few minutes and start once again to do their job:

  1. Ring Alarm ALARM CLEARED BY DAVID MOSS 2/11/20 2:53 PM
  2. Ring Alarm DISARMED FROM KEYPAD BY DAVID MOSS 2/11/20 2:53 PM
  3. Ring Alarm RING ALARM IS SOUNDING BY DINING ROOM PIR AND MULTIPLE DEVICES 2/11/20 2:53 PM
  4. Dining room PIR MOTION DETECTED 2/11/20 2:53 PM
  5. Ring Alarm ENTRY DELAY CAUSED BY KITCHEN PIR 2/11/20 2:53 PM
  6. Kitchen PIR MOTION DETECTED 2/11/20 2:53 PM
  7. Kitchen PIR STOPPED DETECTING MOTION 2/11/20 2:52 PM
  8. Entrance hall PIR STOPPED DETECTING MOTION 2/11/20 2:52 PM
  9. Dining room PIR STOPPED DETECTING MOTION 2/11/20 2:52 PM
  10. Ring Alarm CHANGED TO AWAY MODE FROM KEYPAD BY DAVID MOSS 2/11/20 2:49 PM
  11. Front Door CLOSED 2/11/20 2:49 PM
  12. Front Door OPENED 2/11/20 2:48 PM
  13. Ring Alarm STARTED EXIT DELAY BY DAVID MOSS 2/11/20 2:48 PM
  14. Kitchen PIR MOTION DETECTED 2/11/20 2:48 PM

I set the alarm, opened the door and closed it but didn’t leave the house (10-13), instead I went to the kitchen at 2:49 where motion had been detected at 2:48 (14). I read an article about the world economy grinding to a halt due to coronavirus until at 2:53 the kitchen PIR woke up (5-6), spotted me and triggered the alarm.

When the log says “Kitchen PIR STOPPED DETECTING MOTION” (7) does it actually mean “Kitchen PIR STARTED DETECTING MOTION”? That’s what it looks like. Before 2:53 the PIR couldn’t detect me, after 2:52 it could. The words are odd, don’t believe them, do a test.